Cheney's Common Sense Approach vs Biden & Obama's Arrogant, European View

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VP vs. VP: Cheney Calls Biden "Dead Wrong!"


Vice President Joe Biden and former Vice President Dick Cheney hurtled barbs across the airwaves Sunday in a split-screen debate over terrorism, charging each other with being dangerously “misinformed” or just “dead wrong.”

The unprecedented dueling sit-downs – Biden on NBC and CBS, Cheney on ABC – broke little new ground, but amounted to a point-by-point recitation of each parties’ view of the war on terror, and how the other side screwed it up.

Biden said Cheney “doesn’t listen” and doesn’t give Obama credit for killing dozens of al-Qaida leaders and associates. Cheney shot back that Obama has a dangerously passive “mindset” that doesn’t view terrorism as anything but a crime.

The two also differed on the use of waterboarding in interrogation, with Cheney saying the president must have all the tools at his disposal to get information and Biden saying flatly that he doesn’t think it works and shouldn’t be used in any circumstances.

Biden had one advantage – getting to hear Cheney’s ABC interview and respond live on CBS. So he took on Cheney’s contention that Biden is “dead wrong” when he says it’s unlikely there would be another massive 9/11-type attack.

“That’s Dick Cheney,” Biden said. “I mean, thank God the last administration didn’t listen to him at the end.” Saying that the White House’s approach was similar to that the Bush administration used successfully in its second term, Biden added, “it seems like Dick Cheney can’t take yes for an answer.”

Biden also defended his own statement: “The reason it’s unlikely is because we have been relentless – absolutely relentless – in isolating al-Qaida,” Biden said. “We agree, the worst nightmare is the possession of nuclear weapons or a radiological weapon by al-Qaida. . . . The reason why I do not think it’s likely because of all the resources we have put on this, considerably more than the last administration, to see that it will not happen.”

In his interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Biden said Cheney “either is misinformed or he is misinforming” and accused him of “trying to rewrite history.”

“Let me choose my words carefully here,” Biden said in an interview taped Saturday night from Vancouver, where he seemed to take a more measured tone toward Cheney himself. “Dick Cheney's a fine fellow. He's entitled to his own opinion. He's not entitled to rewrite history. He's not entitled to his own facts.”

For his part, Cheney disputed some of Biden’s recent comments as they appeared on a split screen, calling a nuclear attack or one similar to 9/11 “the biggest strategic threat” facing the United States.

“If the mindset is it’s not likely,” Cheney said, then it’s difficult for the administration to mobilize the resources needed to combat such a threat.

Cheney did back down from his criticism of Obama’s assertion that the Christmas Day bomber was the “act of an isolated extremist,” saying that Obama eventually changed his view.

“It’s the mindset that concerns me,” Cheney said in an interview on ABC’s “This Week,” adding that the Obama administration was slow to “come to that recognition that we are at war.”

And he even offered unflinching support for Obama’s strategy in Afghanistan.

“I’m a complete supporter of what they’re doing in Afghanistan,” Cheney said. Obama made the right decision on Afghanistan, he said, “although it took him a while to get there.”

And the two sparred on Iraq, as Cheney attacked Biden’s recent statement that success in Iraq will be one of the Obama administration’s great achievements, calling it “a little strange.”

Chuckling after he was read Biden’s statement on ABC’s “This Week,” Cheney said, “I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by my friend Joe Biden.”

“I’m glad he now believes Iraq is a success,” Cheney said, adding that Biden and Obama criss-crossed the country during the campaign, criticizing the Bush administration on Iraq and opposed the surge. “For them to try and take credit for what happened in Iraq strikes me as a little strange.”

If the Obama administration is going to take credit for Iraq, it should come with “a healthy dose of thank you George Bush” because the drawdown of troops and democratic government there are “in accordance to the timetable that we initiated.”

Cheney has emerged as one of Obama’s harshest critics in the anti-terror fight, and the White House eagerly accepted the chance to send Biden out to offer the counter-point to the ex-vice president’s critique. Biden’s taped interview was something of a “pre-buttal” to Cheney’s expected remarks, and his live appearance on CBS’s Face the Nation let him respond to what Cheney did say, which largely matched those expectations.

Biden addressed Cheney’s criticism of the Obama administration’s decision to offer alleged Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Muhammad a civilian trail and to read the Christmas Day Bomber his Miranda rights, Biden argued that the Bush administration also tried accused terrorists in civilian court and Mirandized the shoe bomber.

At one point, Biden said of KSM, “I want to see that son of a b. . .son of a gun, incarcerated” for a long time.

Biden expressed exasperation over Cheney’s criticism of the administration’s handling of the Christmas Day Bomber.

“I don’t know what Dick’s been doing lately,” Biden said on CBS. “We did exactly what the Bush administration did with the shoe bomber.”

The administration’s handling of the Christmas Day bomber has been successful, he added, in getting “significant information from him.”

So when it comes to Cheney’s remarks, Biden said, “I don’t get it.”

Biden specifically challenged Cheney’s criticism that Obama is not treating the fight against terrorism as a war.

“I don't think the Vice – the former Vice President Dick Cheney listens,” Biden said. “The President of the United States said in the State of the Union, ‘We're at war with al Qaeda.’ He stated this – and by the way, we're pursuing that war with a vigor like it's never been seen before.”

Biden said while the Bush administration “did their best,” the Obama administration is waging a stronger fight against al Qaeda than its predecessor.

“There has never been as much emphasis and resources brought against Al Qaeda. The success rate exceeds anything that occurred in the last administration,” Biden said. “It's simply not true that the President of the United States is not prosecuting the war against Al Qaeda with a vigor that's never been seen before. It's real. It's deep. It's successful.”

Biden said specifically that the Obama administration’s efforts have killed 12 of al Qaeda’s top 20 leaders and 100 of their associates.

“They are in fact not able to do anything remotely like they were in the past,” Biden said of al Qaeda. “They are on the run. I don't know where Dick Cheney has been. Look, it's one thing, again, to criticize. It's another thing to sort of rewrite history. What is he talking about?”

Cheney, who as vice president was a chief architect of the Bush administration's policies for fighting terrorism and handling accused terrorists, has been one of the White House’s most high-profile critics since Obama took office. In an unusual move for a former vice president, he has repeatedly issued harsh assessments of the administration’s handling of national security and foreign policy issues over the past year.

Biden called Cheney “a fine fellow” twice and declined to speculate on Cheney’s motive. But he did not hold back in his assessment of the former vice president.

“All I know is he's factually, substantively wrong on the major criticisms he is asserting,” Biden said. “He either is misinformed or he is misinforming.”

In his “Meet the Press” interview Biden said President Obama will ultimately decide where to hold the trial of Mohammad, who is now unlikely to be tried in civilian court in New York as the administration had originally ordered. Biden also did not rule out a military commission.

“I am not ruling anything out,” he said. “A military tribunal is available. It is the less preferable way to go. But one way or another, [Mohammad] will be held accountable.”

Questioned about whether the administration has already decided that Mohammad would continue to be detained if he is acquitted, Biden would not confirm or deny that but said there is “no doubt that he would not be acquitted.”

“I assure you, I assure you, acquitted or not, he will not be walking the streets of the United States of America,” Biden said. “And he will not be acquitted.”

Biden’s interview leaned heavily on foreign policy. And while he clarified his remark earlier this week that success in Iraq would be one of President Obama’s great achievements, which drew some criticism because the Iraq plan was put in place under the Bush administration – “What I meant by that is I think he has taken office and managed the situation incredibly well in Iraq.” – when asked if he believes the war there was worth it he said, “No.”

“I don't think the war was worth it in the sense that we paid a horrible price, not only in loss of life, the way the war was mishandled from the outset,” Biden said. “But we took our eye off the ball, putting us in a much different and more dangerous position in Afghanistan. We lost support around the world. It's taken a lot of hard work to get it back. But we were handed — we were dealt a hand, and I think we're handling it incredibly well. ... I think we're handling it very well, the Iraqis are handling it well. And we built on the positive things that the Bush administration had initiated. And we have jettisoned those things that were negative.”

On Iran, Biden said he believes China, the lone holdout, will eventually agree to sanctions, and he disputed President Ahmadinajad’s claim that the country is a nuclear power.

“It is not a nuclear power,” Biden said. “And I believe we'll get the support of China to continue to impose sanctions on Iran to isolate them, to make it clear that in fact they cannot move forward. The progress that Iran has made on the nuclear front is greatly exaggerated in my view. If you take a look at what's happened-- anyway, I think we've made significant progress.”

On domestic issues, Biden declined to confirm reports that he advised President Obama last January not to pursue health care reform because of the economic crisis. Instead he reiterated Obama’s commitment to getting health care legislation.

“Given what's happened, given the trouble that health care reform is now in, do you think that that advice should have been followed?” “Meet the Press” host David Gregory asked.

“Well, first of all, I'm not acknowledging what advice I gave,” Biden said. “The advice I gave to the president is private, that's why he keeps asking for it, and as long as it stays private. I think the president made the right judgment in deciding that in order to bend the cost curve and prevent people from being victimized by health insurance costs that we had to move and we had to move aggressively.”

Biden said Obama has three goals in legislation that brings down the cost of premiums, gets Medicare and Medicaid under control and reforms insurance company practices, such as denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

“[W]e think it's absolutely essential for the economic health of this country that we move forward on health care,” Biden said.

The vice president also predicted that come the November elections, which will be a referendum on Obama, the climate for Democrats will be much more favorable than it is right now.

“[B]y the time we get around to November, in addition to bringing home 90,000 American troops out of Iraq, the story of this administration is going to be more clearly told, and we're gonna do just fine,” Biden said.

















Biden Swings Back At Cheney For War On Terror Criticism


The Obama administration has been stronger than the Bush administration in fighting terrorism, Vice President Biden said Sunday, suggesting former Vice President Dick Cheney, one of President Obama's chief critics, is either "misinformed or misinforming."

In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Biden said he thinks Cheney doesn't listen to the facts and is trying to rewrite history.

"I don't think the former vice president, Dick Cheney, listens. The president of the United States said in the State of the Union we're at war with Al Qaeda," Biden said.

Biden said the Obama administration has eliminated 12 of the top 20 Al Qaeda leaders, has "taken out 100 of their associates, we have sent them underground ... they are on the run."

Calling Cheney "factually, substantively wrong," Biden said it's simply not true that the president is not prosecuting the war in Al Qaeda with a vigor never before seen.

"I don't know where Dick Cheney has been. Look, it's one thing again to criticize. It's another thing to sort of rewrite history. What is he talking about?" Biden said.

Cheney said that the Obama administration is failing to treat the battle against terrorism as war. He told ABC's "This Week" that he is glad for what the administration is doing in Afghanistan but he disagrees with those in the Obama Cabinet who "still insist on thinking of terrorist attacks on the United States as criminal acts rather than acts of war, that's a huge distinction."

Cheney said he also disapproved of President Obama's initial response to the actions by Christmas bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.

"It was closer to being an act of war than an act of an isolated criminal," Cheney said. "What the administration was slow to do was to come to the realization that this is an act of war."

But Biden said Cheney's criticism rings false. He added that two of three detainees tried in military courts were set free under the Bush administration, while more than 300 tried in federal courts are now in prison.

"He is not entitled to his own facts," Biden said.

White House National Security Adviser Jim Jones refused to get into it over Cheney's criticism, telling CNN that national security isn't a partisan issue. He added that it depends on what information Cheney has.

"If it's informed, that's one thing," he said.

As for the war in Iraq, Biden said it hasn't been worth its "horrible price."

He said the war was mishandled from the outset and that the U.S. took its eye off the ball. As a result, the U.S. was left in a more dangerous position in Afghanistan, where Al Qaeda hatched the Sept 11 attacks, he said.

The war also has cost the United States support from other nations, he said, but he predicted Iraq will have successful parliamentary elections next month and the U.S. is likely to bring home some 90,000 combat troops by the end of the summer.

More than 4,370 U.S. military personnel have died in Iraq since former President George W. Bush ordered the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 to overthrow Saddam Hussein. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been wounded or killed.

But Cheney said, "I believe very deeply in the proposition that what we did in Iraq was the right thing to do . It ws hard to do, it took a long time to do.

"We're going to have a democracy in Iraq. We do today ... This is has been an enormous achievement for peace and stability in the Middle East and security for the United States. Joe Biden doesn't believe that," Cheney said.

Cheney said that if the Obama administration now wants to take credit for the success of Iraq, after opposing the surge, campaigning against it during the 2008 presidential race and finishing up a timetable set forth during the Bush administration, then "it ought to go with a healthy dose of 'Thank You, George Bush' up front."

Sources: Fox News, Politico, MSNBC