Sources: ABC News, Fox News, Law Newz, National Enquirer, NY Times, Salon, Stefan Molyneaux, YouTube
He said, He said.
As it relates to a story published recently by the National Enquirer regarding U.S. Senator Ted Cruz engaging in alleged extramarital affairs with at least 5 different women, many inquiring minds are no longer just taking Cruz's word that his nemesis planted the story.
Since the National Enquirer is willing to go to court over this story, many voters are now beginning to question Cruz's character.
So who is telling the TRUTH?
Are voters finally beginning to see Ted Cruz for who he really is?
Or do voters believe Trump may have played a small part in the Cruz story being published even though it's widely rumored that Marco Rubio's supporters may have leaked this info to the National Enquirer in retaliation for Cruz exposing Rubio's alleged Gay past?
Phil Houston is CEO of QVerity, a training and consulting company specializing in detecting deception by employing a model he developed while at the Central Intelligence Agency. He has conducted thousands of interviews and interrogations for the CIA and other federal agencies. His colleague Don Tennant contributed to this report.
The eyebrow-raising story that appeared earlier this week in the National Enquirer, citing claims that Sen. Ted Cruz had engaged in five extramarital affairs, drew a sharp response from the Republican presidential contender. Sharp as it was, however, it was strikingly weak in terms of denial, and strong in terms of attack. And that combination is a telltale sign of deception that leads us to conclude that this is a matter that warrants further investigation.
“I want to be crystal clear: these attacks are garbage. For Donald J. Trump to enlist his friends at the National Enquirer and his political henchmen to do his bidding shows you that there is no low Donald won’t go. These smears are completely false, they’re offensive to Heidi and me, they’re offensive to our daughters, and they’re offensive to everyone Donald continues to personally attack. Donald Trump’s consistently disgraceful behavior is beneath the office we are seeking and we are not going to follow.”
Subsequently speaking about the matter, Cruz echoed that sentiment, with even more intensity (you can watch below). He said:
“The National Enquirer published a story. It is a story that quoted one source on the record: Roger Stone, Donald Trump’s chief political advisor. Let me be clear, this National Enquirer story is garbage. It is complete and utter lies. It is a tabloid smear, and it is a smear that has come from Donald Trump and his henchmen. It is attacking my family, and what is striking is Donald’s henchman, Roger Stone, had for months been foreshadowing that this attack was coming. It’s not surprising that Donald Trump’s tweet occurs the day before the attack comes out. And I would note that Mr. Stone is a man who has 50 years of dirty tricks behind him. He’s a man for whom a term was coined for copulating with a rodent. Well let me be clear: Donald Trump may be a rat, but I have no desire to copulate with him. And this garbage does not belong in politics. The National Enquirer has endorsed Donald Trump, has said he must be President. And so Donald, when he’s losing, when he’s scared, when Republicans are uniting against him, decides to peddle sleaze and slime. You know, Donald is fond of giving people nicknames. With this pattern, he should not be surprised to see people calling him, ‘Sleazy Donald.’”
We should note that these two statements constitute the only material that we currently have at our disposal to analyze, which is far from ideal. Obviously, the more material available for analysis, the greater our confidence in our findings. With that said, however, we were struck by the volume of deceptive behavior that we identified in these statements.
Behaviorally, when the facts are the ally of an individual, he or she almost always tends to focus on the facts of the matter at hand. In this case, if the key fact was that he had not had these affairs, Cruz would almost certainly have been much more strongly focused on the denial. That is, he very likely would have made a point of explicitly stating something along the lines of, “I did not have these affairs.”
Yet at no point in either statement did Cruz say that. He implied it by saying the allegations are false, and that they’re lies, but behaviorally, such statements are not equivalent to saying he never had the affairs. Even if we were to overlook that fact and consider his statements to be a denial, there is an overwhelmingly higher proportion of attack behavior compared to the effort expended at denial. This type of lopsided attack-to-denial ratio is very consistent with what we have historically seen with deceptive people when allegations are levied against them.
Given the lack of additional information upon which to conduct a more comprehensive behavioral analysis, this is nothing more than our initial opinion and assessment, and we will continue to follow this matter very closely. At the same time, we cannot help but conclude at this point that it’s not looking good for Sen. Cruz.
Elizabeth Edwards will be buried Saturday in Raleigh, next to her oldest son, who was killed 14 years ago in a traffic accident, according to Brown-Wynne Funeral Home.
Edwards died of cancer Tuesday at her home surrounded by her three children, siblings, friends and her estranged husband, John. She was 61.
According to Brown-Wynne Funeral Home, a public funeral will be held at 1 p.m. Saturday at Edenton Street United Methodist Church, located at 228 W. Edenton St. in Raleigh.
A private burial will follow at Oakwood Cemetery in Raleigh.
In lieu of flowers, the family requests that contributions be made to the Wade Edwards Foundation.
Elizabeth Edwards' legacy: toughness amid tragedy
A son dying young. A six-year battle with cancer. A humiliating betrayal.
Americans knew Elizabeth Edwards in large part through her tragedies, but more importantly, they knew her for the vitality and determination she showed through them. Her cancer incurable and her former-presidential-candidate husband mired in a paternity scandal, she did not shrink from public life but shared her story and advocated for health-care reform.
"We can look at that face of courage and realize we can have that, too," said Darlene Gardner, 62, who runs a cancer support group and founded a store in Cary that provides wigs and other items for those with the disease. "It shows you that, in spite of everything that's going on, you can come through anything."
Elizabeth Edwards and her family had informed the public that she had weeks, if not days, left when they announced on Monday that doctors had told her that further treatment would do no good. Ever the public figure, Edwards thanked supporters on her Facebook page.
"The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered," she wrote. "We know that. And yes, there are certainly times when we aren't able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It's called being human. But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful."
Her final days were in the company of her surviving children and their father.
"He loved Elizabeth," David "Mudcat" Saunders, a political adviser and friend of the family, said of John Edwards. "You climb that many mountains and you go through the deepest valley that two people can possibly go through together — the loss of a child — and that makes for an incredible bond."
Saunders relayed a scene from Monday, told to him by John Edwards, when their youngest child, 10-year-old Jack, came in the room to tell his mother he loved her. She smiled at him and said, "I love you, too, sweetie," Saunders said.
Edwards shared her life struggles in memoirs. In a series of book events starting in 2006, her insights brought women who confided in Edwards about how they dealt with hair loss from treatments or how her words helped them cope with lost children.
In her book "Saving Graces," Edwards talked about collapsing in the aisle of a grocery store after seeing her son's favorite soda — Cherry Coke_ a few months after he died in a car accident at the age of 16. Later, she wrote about how physically grueling the cancer treatments were. This year, she detailed in a new chapter to her second memoir how difficult it was to leave her husband of 30 years after his infidelity.
"In her life, Elizabeth Edwards knew tragedy and pain," President Barack Obama said in a statement. "Many others would have turned inward; many others in the face of such adversity would have given up. But through all that she endured, Elizabeth revealed a kind of fortitude and grace that will long remain a source of inspiration."
On Facebook, an Elizabeth Edwards fan page was inundated with several posts a minute after her death was announced. Many of those offering condolences mentioned their own experiences with cancer, or those of their relatives.
"People identified with her and saw how courageous she was under extemely difficult circumstances," said Barbara Chassin, a 62-year-old cancer survivor from Phoenix, in an interview. "Also, she was fairly realistic about her prognosis, and that's a good thing."
Dr. Linda Vahdat, an oncologist and director of the Breast Cancer Research Program at New York-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center in New York City, said Edwards' public discussions about her diagnosis, illness and treatment has helped has helped raise awareness. She said her breast cancer patients were talking about Edwards on Tuesday.
"They're sad," Vahdat said. "People have always been rooting for her."
The Edwardses' son Wade died before John Edwards turned to politics. Two of their three children, Emma Claire and Jack, were born after his death, joining daughter Cate.
Elizabeth Edwards advised her husband during his successful 1998 Senate campaign in North Carolina and his presidential runs in 2004 and 2008. Doctors found a lump on her breast in 2004, in the final days of her husband's vice presidential campaign, and she was later diagnosed. The Democratic John Kerry-John Edwards ticket lost to incumbent President George W. Bush.
After treatments, doctors found her to be cancer-free, but in early 2007, shortly after John Edwards launched a second bid for the White House, the couple learned that her cancer had returned in an incurable form.
"We are not in denial," Edwards wrote in an updated version of her first memoir published in 2007. "I will die much sooner than I want to. I will leave a splendid man and an amazing daughter with yet another funeral to attend when they place me in the ground next to Wade and I will not be able to comfort them. And I will leave two magical children whom I love with all my being too early."
Her husband added to her suffering with an affair with videographer Rielle Hunter that he publicly acknowledged in 2008. Instead of playing a role in the final weeks of the presidential race, which Edwards had quit after poor primary showings, he and Elizabeth retreated almost entirely from public life.
Hunter had a baby that John Edwards insisted was not his until January 2010, when he acknowledged he had fathered the child. A week later, friends revealed that he and Elizabeth had separated.
While Elizabeth Edwards pleaded for privacy, she also wrote a memoir -- her second -- that discussed how the affair repulsed her. She went on "The Oprah Winfrey Show" to talk about it, but only on the condition that Winfrey not mention Hunter's name.
Edwards said in interviews that it didn't matter whether her husband had fathered a child with Hunter, saying, "that would be part of John's life." Still, she stood by him.
"Nothing will be quite as I want it, but sometimes we eat the toast that is burned on one side anyway, don't we?" she wrote in the memoir, "Resilience."
With no campaign to focus on, Elizabeth Edwards returned to advocacy work, appearing on her own and often without any mention of her husband to push for universal health care. She often wondered aloud about the plight of those who faced the same of kind of physical struggles she did but without her personal wealth.
"Even at the end of her life to reassure people that she still felt that living a life that was filled with hope and really believing in resilience gave meaning to her life," Jennifer Palmieri, a family friend and national press secretary for John Edwards' 2004 presidential campaign, said Wednesday on CBS' "The Early Show."
Ellen Schoenfeld, a breast cancer survivor in New York, said Edwards "faced her illness with a ton of strength and a lot of hope and faith. She took it on with such grace and dignity."
Schoenfeld said Edward gave other people with cancer "the motivation to live their lives the way they want to live them," she said. "People might think you need to change the way you live when you get a diagnosis like that, but she wanted to maintain a sense of normalcy, for her kids and for herself, too. I think she just wanted to live as normal a life as possible."
Elizabeth Edwards, a best-selling author and the driving force behind husband John Edwards' political career before it was destroyed by his infidelity, has died of cancer. She was 61.
Gravely ill with cancer that no longer responded to treatment, Elizabeth Edwards was reportedly not in any pain and was surrounded at home in North Carolina by family and friends, including her estranged husband, a former Democratic presidential candidate.
Her death came at 10:15 Tuesday morning, according to a family friend. The scene was described as "very peaceful."
The friend said, "Elizabeth did not want people to say she lost her battle with cancer. The battle was about living a good life and that she won."
Family friends provided NBC News with this statement from the Edwards family:
"Elizabeth Anania Edwards, mother, author, advocate, died today at her home in Chapel Hill, surrounded by her family.
"Today we have lost the comfort of Elizabeth's presence but she remains the heart of this family.
"We love her and will never know anyone more inspiring or full of life.
"On behalf of Elizabeth we want to express our gratitude to the thousands of kindred spirits who moved and inspired her along the way. Your support and prayers touched our entire family.
"In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to the Wade Edwards Foundation which benefits the Wade Edwards Learning Lab." The Edwards' son Wade died in a car accident at age 16 in 1996.
When news began to circulate that Elizabeth had taken a turn for the worse and her cancer had spread to her liver, her family announced Monday that her doctors had recommended against any additional treatment.
"She found out last week and is at peace with where she is right now,” PEOPLE magazine’s Sandra Westfall told TODAY co-anchor Matt Lauer Tuesday before Elizabeth passed away. “She has a home full of relatives, which is how she always wanted it. They are telling stories, looking at old photos, and having as many laughs as tears.”
John Edwards, from whom Elizabeth Edwards separated last year after he acknowledged fathering a child with a former aide to his unsuccessful vice presidential campaign, was with his wife and their three children: Cate, 28; Emma Claire, 12; and Jack, 10.
During an appearance on TODAY last year, Elizabeth Edwards said that while it was difficult not to be able to “lean” on the man she once called “my rock,” she thought it was important to not shut him out.
“For the children she’s put on a brave face, and kept that relationship intact. He’s at the house this week, helping with the children, getting takeout for the family that is visiting,” Westfall said.
Agreeing with Lauer that it must be a difficult time for the children, Westfall said Elizabeth Edwards has been preparing them for her death for some time.
“She, years ago, starting writing a ‘dying letter,’ she called it, so she would have the advice to pass on and always be there with a mother's wisdom when she couldn’t be there physically,” Westfall said.
Elizabeth Edwards wrote two best-selling books, "Resilience" and "Saving Graces," about her long battle with cancer and the scandal surrounding her husband.
Reactions from Leaders
The news of Elizabeth Edwards' death brought messages of condolences and sympathy from around the country. In a statement, Vice President Joe Biden said, "Elizabeth Edwards fought a brave battle against a terrible, ravaging disease that takes too many lives every day. She was an inspiration to all who knew her, and to those who felt they knew her."
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said she was deeply saddened by Edwards' death.
"America has lost a passionate advocate for building a more humane and just society, for reforming our health-care system, and for finding a cure for cancer once and for all," Clinton said in a statement. "But the Edwards family and her legion of friends have lost so much more — a loving mother, constant guardian, and wise counselor.
"Our thoughts are with the Edwards family at this time, and with all those people across the country who met Elizabeth over the years and found an instant friend — someone who shared their experiences and offered empathy, understanding and hope."
North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr, a Republican who won the Senate seat previously held by John Edwards in 2008, called Elizabeth Edwards "a passionate advocate for issues she believed in" and "a caring and loving mother."
"Her legacy should serve as an inspiration to all of us," Burr said. "Her life was not without tragedy and adversity, yet through it all she fought for her family and faced every challenge with courage, poise and grace."
Long Battle
Elizabeth Edwards was first diagnosed with cancer in 2004, and learned that the cancer had returned in 2007, as her husband John was preparing for his presidential bid.
On her Facebook page, Edwards had earlier posted the following message:
“You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces — my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope. These graces have carried me through difficult times and they have brought more joy to the good times than I ever could have imagined.
“The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered. We know that. And, yes, there are certainly times when we aren't able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It’s called being human. But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful.
“It isn’t possible to put into words the love and gratitude I feel to everyone who has and continues to support and inspire me every day. To you I simply say: you know."
Elizabeth Edwards is surrounded by family and friends in her North Carolina home after being informed by her doctors that further cancer treatment would be unproductive.
"Elizabeth has been advised by her doctors that further treatment of her cancer would be unproductive," the Edwards family said Monday in a statement. "She is resting at home with family and friends and has posted this message to friends on her Facebook page."
The message from Edwards, the wife of two-time presidential candidate John Edwards, reads:
"You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces – my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope. These graces have carried me through difficult times and they have brought more joy to the good times than I ever could have imagined. The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered. We know that. And, yes, there are certainly times when we aren't able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It's called being human.
"But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful. It isn't possible to put into words the love and gratitude I feel to everyone who has and continues to support and inspire me every day. To you I simply say: you know."
Edwards was told by her doctors last week that additional cancer treatments were futile, said a source close to the family. Her prognosis was described in terms of weeks, not months, the source said.
She is receiving treatment and medications, however, for symptoms and side effects.
"She is not in pain, Elizabeth is in good spirits," said the source. "She has prepared for this"
John Edwards and their children are at her side, along with Elizabeth's brother and sister.
Elizabeth Edwards, a best-selling author and the driving force behind husband John Edwards' political career before it was destroyed by his infidelity, has died of cancer. She was 61.
Gravely ill with cancer that no longer responded to treatment, Elizabeth Edwards was reportedly not in any pain and was surrounded at home in North Carolina by family and friends, including her estranged husband, a former Democratic presidential candidate.
Her death came at 10:15 Tuesday morning, according to a family friend. The scene was described as "very peaceful."
The friend said, "Elizabeth did not want people to say she lost her battle with cancer. The battle was about living a good life and that she won."
Family friends provided NBC News with this statement from the Edwards family:
"Elizabeth Anania Edwards, mother, author, advocate, died today at her home in Chapel Hill, surrounded by her family.
"Today we have lost the comfort of Elizabeth's presence but she remains the heart of this family.
"We love her and will never know anyone more inspiring or full of life.
"On behalf of Elizabeth we want to express our gratitude to the thousands of kindred spirits who moved and inspired her along the way. Your support and prayers touched our entire family.
"In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to the Wade Edwards Foundation which benefits the Wade Edwards Learning Lab." The Edwards' son Wade died in a car accident at age 16 in 1996.
When news began to circulate that Elizabeth had taken a turn for the worse and her cancer had spread to her liver, her family announced Monday that her doctors had recommended against any additional treatment.
"She found out last week and is at peace with where she is right now,” PEOPLE magazine’s Sandra Westfall told TODAY co-anchor Matt Lauer Tuesday before Elizabeth passed away. “She has a home full of relatives, which is how she always wanted it. They are telling stories, looking at old photos, and having as many laughs as tears.”
John Edwards, from whom Elizabeth Edwards separated last year after he acknowledged fathering a child with a former aide to his unsuccessful vice presidential campaign, was with his wife and their three children: Cate, 28; Emma Claire, 12; and Jack, 10.
During an appearance on TODAY last year, Elizabeth Edwards said that while it was difficult not to be able to “lean” on the man she once called “my rock,” she thought it was important to not shut him out.
“For the children she’s put on a brave face, and kept that relationship intact. He’s at the house this week, helping with the children, getting takeout for the family that is visiting,” Westfall said.
Agreeing with Lauer that it must be a difficult time for the children, Westfall said Elizabeth Edwards has been preparing them for her death for some time.
“She, years ago, starting writing a ‘dying letter,’ she called it, so she would have the advice to pass on and always be there with a mother's wisdom when she couldn’t be there physically,” Westfall said.
Elizabeth Edwards wrote two best-selling books, "Resilience" and "Saving Graces," about her long battle with cancer and the scandal surrounding her husband.
Reactions from Leaders
The news of Elizabeth Edwards' death brought messages of condolences and sympathy from around the country. In a statement, Vice President Joe Biden said, "Elizabeth Edwards fought a brave battle against a terrible, ravaging disease that takes too many lives every day. She was an inspiration to all who knew her, and to those who felt they knew her."
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said she was deeply saddened by Edwards' death.
"America has lost a passionate advocate for building a more humane and just society, for reforming our health-care system, and for finding a cure for cancer once and for all," Clinton said in a statement. "But the Edwards family and her legion of friends have lost so much more — a loving mother, constant guardian, and wise counselor.
"Our thoughts are with the Edwards family at this time, and with all those people across the country who met Elizabeth over the years and found an instant friend — someone who shared their experiences and offered empathy, understanding and hope."
North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr, a Republican who won the Senate seat previously held by John Edwards in 2008, called Elizabeth Edwards "a passionate advocate for issues she believed in" and "a caring and loving mother."
"Her legacy should serve as an inspiration to all of us," Burr said. "Her life was not without tragedy and adversity, yet through it all she fought for her family and faced every challenge with courage, poise and grace."
Long Battle
Elizabeth Edwards was first diagnosed with cancer in 2004, and learned that the cancer had returned in 2007, as her husband John was preparing for his presidential bid.
On her Facebook page, Edwards had earlier posted the following message:
“You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces — my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope. These graces have carried me through difficult times and they have brought more joy to the good times than I ever could have imagined.
“The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered. We know that. And, yes, there are certainly times when we aren't able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It’s called being human. But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful.
“It isn’t possible to put into words the love and gratitude I feel to everyone who has and continues to support and inspire me every day. To you I simply say: you know."
Elizabeth Edwards is surrounded by family and friends in her North Carolina home after being informed by her doctors that further cancer treatment would be unproductive.
"Elizabeth has been advised by her doctors that further treatment of her cancer would be unproductive," the Edwards family said Monday in a statement. "She is resting at home with family and friends and has posted this message to friends on her Facebook page."
The message from Edwards, the wife of two-time presidential candidate John Edwards, reads:
"You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces – my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope. These graces have carried me through difficult times and they have brought more joy to the good times than I ever could have imagined. The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered. We know that. And, yes, there are certainly times when we aren't able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It's called being human.
"But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful. It isn't possible to put into words the love and gratitude I feel to everyone who has and continues to support and inspire me every day. To you I simply say: you know."
Edwards was told by her doctors last week that additional cancer treatments were futile, said a source close to the family. Her prognosis was described in terms of weeks, not months, the source said.
She is receiving treatment and medications, however, for symptoms and side effects.
"She is not in pain, Elizabeth is in good spirits," said the source. "She has prepared for this"
John Edwards and their children are at her side, along with Elizabeth's brother and sister.
Elizabeth Edwards is surrounded by family and friends in her North Carolina home after being informed by her doctors that further cancer treatment would be unproductive.
"Elizabeth has been advised by her doctors that further treatment of her cancer would be unproductive," the Edwards family said Monday in a statement. "She is resting at home with family and friends and has posted this message to friends on her Facebook page."
The message from Edwards, the wife of two-time presidential candidate John Edwards, reads:
"You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces – my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope. These graces have carried me through difficult times and they have brought more joy to the good times than I ever could have imagined. The days of our lives, for all of us, are numbered. We know that. And, yes, there are certainly times when we aren't able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It's called being human.
"But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope, and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious. And for that I am grateful. It isn't possible to put into words the love and gratitude I feel to everyone who has and continues to support and inspire me every day. To you I simply say: you know."
Edwards was told by her doctors last week that additional cancer treatments were futile, said a source close to the family. Her prognosis was described in terms of weeks, not months, the source said.
She is receiving treatment and medications, however, for symptoms and side effects.
"She is not in pain, Elizabeth is in good spirits," said the source. "She has prepared for this"
John Edwards and their children are at her side, along with Elizabeth's brother and sister.
We've heard from former senator John Edwards, we've heard from his soon-to-be-ex-wife, Saint Elizabeth, and we've heard from Andrew Young, the former Edwards aide and faux father. But through it all—the affair and the cancer-stricken spouse, the doomed campaign and the love child, the sex tape, all of it—we've never heard from the woman at the heart of the story. Now, after years of silence, the other woman speaks.
I met Rielle Hunter for the first time the day of our first interview, at her home in Charlotte, North Carolina, though we'd already spoken for some months on the phone. And would continue to, as more developments were reported. (Are she and John Edwards engaged? "I am not engaged.") There were no conditions, no ground rules, no topics or questions that were off-limits. Just a request that her words be her words, unfiltered and unspun. While everyone else in the Edwards drama has said their piece, in books and/or television interviews, the mistress and campaign videographer and mother of his child has, in her own words, "kept my mouth shut." Until now (as they say in the tabloids).
My first impression of Hunter, when she opened the back door of the screened porch filled with toys and strollers in the three-bedroom house she is renting (for $1,500 a month), her hair pulled up in a scrunchy, was that she was much prettier, and a whole lot softer, than all those National Enquirer spy photos suggest. She was wearing size 2 jeans, a Ralph Lauren turtleneck, and Uggs. No makeup. And she was laughing. Because Quinn, her 2-year-old daughter, had just done something particularly adorable. The child is gorgeous and, yes, looks exactly like John Edwards, but she also has her mother's spirit. Which is to say, a combination of serenity and spunk.
Hunter had fluffed up the tiny guest room upstairs—carefully placing a Zen-sayings paperback beside the twin bed—and invited me to stay overnight, with a warning that the three of us (she, Quinn, and I) would have to share the one bathroom, where the tub is filled with her daughter's rubber duckies. I accepted.
During the day and night and into the next morning, our talks were sometimes interrupted by the presence of a creepy guy exiting a dark blue van and setting up a tripod and camera on the sidewalk by her house, the lens focused into her living room or bedroom. She would handle this with practiced ease, closing any shutters that weren't already closed ("I love sunlight, but this is the reality"), at night dimming the lights and, with Quinn on her hip, dialing up her pals in the local police department, who are used to this (and are fiercely protective of her and Quinn). The cops would do their thing, the paparazzi would scatter—then return an hour or so later and the whole exercise would start again.
Throughout the day, news flashes and fresh rumors about her and Edwards popped up on my BlackBerry and her laptop. (The TV was on constantly, but it was tuned to Nick Jr., Quinn's favorite channel, not CNN.) At one point, while Hunter was feeding her daughter sushi-style avocado rolls in her high chair, the news broke that John and Elizabeth Edwards were officially separated. "Shocking," she said.
You haven't uttered a word so far. Why now? I feel comfortable talking now, because Johnny went public and made a statement admitting paternity. I didn't feel like I could ever speak until he did that. Because had I spoken, I would have emasculated him. And I could not emasculate him. Also, it is not my desire to teach my daughter that when Mommy's upset with Daddy, you take matters into your own hands and fix Daddy's mistakes. Which I view as one of the biggest problems in all female-and-male relationships.
We'll get to that. But first, we should make it clear: You're not making a penny from this interview. [laughs] I am not making a penny from this interview!
I would imagine you could have sold out a hundred times. I could have cashed out big. But that's not what I'm about. I love Johnny and I love my daughter more than anything in the world, and I don't want to ever do anything to hurt them or hurt their relationship.
How hard was it to keep quiet? At times very difficult. It's been four years. It's hard to know that people are out there speaking over and over and over again untruths. Lies. Consciously going out there and spinning the truth. Using me and Johnny and our relationship to make themselves look better, to play victim, or to get money. That rubs me the wrong way in every way possible.
By the way, do you always call him Johnny? [laughs] Isn't that funny? You know, when I first met him, the first week of our relationship, I said to him, "For some reason I cannot call you John, it doesn't come out. Could I call you Johnny?" And he said, "That's my name." And I didn't know that, but that's his actual birth name.
Is he okay with your doing this interview? He's very supportive of me talking now. He believes that it's something that will help me be at peace with it. And he knows how important truth is to me. Factual truth as well as spiritual truth.
What was the hardest thing you've had to read about yourself? Um, well, there's so much, Lisa. [laughs] I mean, just for starters, I never "hit on" Johnny. I'm not a predator, I'm not a gold digger, I'm not the stalker. I didn't have any power in that way in our relationship. He held all the power. And then, you know, um, Elizabeth's book tour and Johnny's interview [in August 2008 with ABC's Bob Woodruff] were devastating to me. But I also knew it didn't mean anything.
You mean the interview where he said it was impossible that he was the father. Correct.
And wasn't that when he was asked if he loved you and he responded by saying there was only one woman he ever loved, Elizabeth? I believe so. Yeah. I mean, it was very painful. Because I had this thing in my head like a lot of women, where you want your man to stand up on a cliff and scream, "I LOVE HER." You know, the knight in shining armor. And that wasn't what was going on.
Did he call you after the interview? Yes. And I said, "Ouch, that hurt." And he said, "I'm sorry." And "It doesn't mean anything." And it didn't. I know he loves me. I have never had any doubt at all about that. We love each other very much. And that hasn't changed, and I believe that will be till death do us part. The love doesn't go away. It's unconditional. It's unconditional on my part, but our connection is profound. There's a lot of passion there.
Do you think it's unconditional on his part? You would have to ask him. I can't speak for him. I wouldn't ever speak for him.
Let's start at the beginning. February 2006. How did you meet him? I met him on a street corner. [laughs] A lot has been written that I met him inside the Regency [hotel in New York City], that I walked over to his table. That is all 100 percent fiction. I saw him in the Regency, in the Library, which is the restaurant-slash-lounge. And he saw me. And it was a mutual unusual staring going on. There was an instant and odd connection that we both felt. Like, "I know you, you know me, who are you?" Anyway, he then got up and left.
So you didn't approach him in the Regency? No. One thing I've learned about relationships and men is that you can never walk across the room for a man. If a man is attracted to you, he needs to take the first step.
Did you know who he was? I did not know who he was.
Really? I did not. The John Edwards I saw in 2004 on TV I believed to be a disconnected, two-dimensional-geek kind of guy. And the man sitting across the room was not that at all.
Then what happened? He got up and left, and Josh Brumberger [one of his aides] left with him. But the other person they were with—a donor, a lawyer named Tony—stayed. And when they left, my friend went over and asked Tony if that was John Edwards, and he said yes. And my friend turned to me and said, "See, I told you it was John Edwards." And then I came over to the table, and I said, "I can't believe that was John Edwards; he's so hot. He's really got it going on. He's got something unusual about him, and I never would have recognized him." And Tony said, "Oh, my God, you should have come over and told him that. He would have loved to have heard that." Anyway, my friend and I stayed there, and we had another friend come join us. And then Josh came back. And when I went to the restroom, I stopped at Josh's table and gave him a card and got Josh's card. I did that because my friend really wanted to work for John Edwards. So I gave Josh a card. And my card, by the way, never said truth seeker on it.
What did your card say? It said rielle hunter. being is free.
And that was because— It was the Web site that I had. Which is a whole other topic. Anyway, when my other friend came—she was about to get married, so it was all about that. There was no more talk of John Edwards.
And then what? We decided to go get dinner. And on the way out, [the second friend] noticed a poster of someone she knew who was going to sing at the Regency and went back in to ask the concierge about it, and that's how I ended up standing on the street. We were standing outside waiting for my friend, and who comes waltzing around the corner but one Johnny Reid Edwards.
Was he surprised to see you? Well, what Johnny later told me was, he went to dinner and could not stop thinking about me, like, "Who was that woman, and why didn't I go over and talk to her?" Because it was the oddest connection he had ever felt. And so, when he was coming back to the Regency, he looked in the window at the Library, which you can see from the street, and I was gone. And he was so disappointed. Kicking himself. So when he walked around the corner and saw me standing there, he lit up like a Christmas tree. And I thought his reaction when he saw me was just so cute. I mean, he looked like a little kid at Christmas. And I just uttered to him, "You're so hot." And he said, "Why, thank you!" And he almost jumped into my arms. Literally. And um, that's how we met. On the corner of 61st and Park Avenue.
The "You're so hot" line was one of those things, when Elizabeth did her book tour, that she seemed very appalled by. Look, I could have said A, B, C, D, and E. [laughs] It didn't matter. And it's funny, because the only reason I said, "You're so hot" is because Tony said, "Oh, he would love to have heard that." And he did love it. Without a doubt. And by the way, he is hot. He is not the two-dimensional geek that I thought he was, by any stretch of the imagination. He is hot.
Why do you think he loves you? Um… How do I answer that? [long pause] I mean, I could give so many answers. I could give a spiritual answer, that I reflect back to him large parts of himself that were unconscious. Like, he's a huge, huge humanitarian. He is very kindhearted and sweet. He's very honest and truthful. And all of that was hidden.
But the irony of what you're saying—right now, most people think he's the most untruthful person in America. You know, it's so fascinating to me how people perceive things. Everyone talks about how Johnny has fallen from grace. In reality, he's fallen to grace. He is integrated. He is living a life of truth. He has grown in awareness and humility. He had all these things within him, but they weren't the guiding, leading principles of his life. Now they are.
Do you think he thinks that? That he's more integrated now? Yeah. I think that he thinks that he is a much wiser and a much better and a more truthful and a more integrated human being.
Did you encourage him earlier to be truthful? Um, once again, in a male-female relationship, you can offer… I mean, the way that I have learned to keep a relationship going is to offer your advice when asked for it, and love unconditionally when it's not taken.
That must be hard to do. It's beyond difficult. To allow a man to be a man. The biggest mistake that I find is that women attempt to make men women. You know, we want them to be like we are. We want them to get it immediately and do things the way that we want them to do them. And men are men. And I love him for being a man. But oh, my God, yes, it's been infuriating so many times.
Like when he said on national television that it was impossible that he was the father? Correct. But I also knew when he did that interview he was not in the right mind. He was traumatized. Because he had been living a life that was now exposed. And he does, you know, traumatic things when that door opens. Like Mark Sanford. A hidden life, when it is exposed, is a traumatic event for the person going through it. And they're not in their right mind. Anyone going through that should never speak publicly. And what they say, if they do speak publicly, should be forgiven.
So you say, "You're so hot." Then what? I said I could help him. Which I really believed I could. And quite frankly—well, depending on your perspective, I really have.
And that president thing, whatever. Yeah. So I said, "I can help you." And he said, "I want your help. I need your help." And he told me how to contact him [at the Regency]. He said, "Please call me." I said, "How long are you staying?" He said, "Until tomorrow morning. Please, call me. Call me."
What did you mean by "I can help you?" That I could help him see who he is instead of what he's not. The person standing in front of me was not the person they were selling, or his public persona. He was completely opposite from his public persona.
So it's not like you were thinking, I can help you by videotaping the campaign? No.
You were thinking— That I could help him become more integrated so that people could see that he had it going on.
And you knew that in the first few seconds? Upon sight. So I called him about a half hour later. And I got a voice mail in the room, so I hung up. Did not leave a message. Because I did not know what was appropriate. I knew he was married, and I didn't know if his wife was with him, you know; I didn't know what was appropriate. And this was not—there was no sexual intention here at all.
Really? C'mon. None. I really just thought I could help him. So I hung up. And about ten minutes later, my cell phone rang. And I looked down, and I said to my friends, "What is this number?" One of my friends said, "That's the Regency." And I said, "He's calling me back? I didn't even leave a message. How is he calling me back?" And he, you know, star-69'ed or whatever the caller ID was. And he left me this message, "Hi. Call me. I really want to hear what you have to say."
So… So I called him back. And he said that he really wanted to hear what I had to say. Would I mind, um, meeting him in his room? And I said, "No, I wouldn't mind at all." And the reason I wouldn't is because he's a celebrity. I have a lot of celebrity friends, and I know their rules are different. Also, it felt completely familiar, like I'd known him all my life. Anyway, so I said, "Let me eat my Caesar salad, and I'll see you in fifteen minutes." And I said to my friends, "I'm going over there." And it was funny, because they were like, "You cannot sleep with him! You cannot sleep with him, because you can help him!" And I said, "I am not going to sleep with him." I gave them my word: "I won't sleep with him." [laughs] And so I went over to his room, and I walked in, and I. Was. Terrified.
Why terrified? Because I had never experienced anything like what was flowing between us. I sat on the other side of the room. I wouldn't go near him. And he kept saying [she mimics his southern drawl], "What are you doin' over there? Come over here. I can't even see you. Come closer. I won't bite you." I was just—there was sooo much attraction and sooo much… I want to say love, but it wasn't love at that point. You know, it was just this, this magnetic force field like I had never experienced. It terrified me. Absolutely terrified me. And, um, I eventually walked over to his side of the room. [laughs] He was pretty relentless. And that's all I'm gonna say on that! Now fade to black!
Oh, don't fade to black now. I used to make a joke that I could have helped save the world, but I had to sleep with him. You know? It was kind of like that.
And then what? I fell in love with Johnny Reid. He called me the next day. We talked on the phone almost every night for four hours. We met on February 21. On February 25—on the phone, from Davenport, Iowa—I fell in love with him. Head over heels in love. I was a goner.
What was it about that phone call? You know, love is this mysterious force that you just don't understand. And it's uplifting, and it's bigger than you, bigger than us, bigger than everyone. We could not stop it. It was so big. And it's still big. It's astonishing. It surprises us.
Do you see yourself living happily ever after with him? [pauses] I have no idea. I do know that I will love him and that love is till death do us part, and probably beyond. We have a child together, so at the very least we will be co-parents together.
Have you been involved with any other men since— Oh no! Oh, my God, no. Absolutely not. And it's so hilarious, all these things that I'm such a flirt and I'm promiscuous? Johnny gets the biggest laugh out of that. I mean, the biggest. There's been one time period in my entire life that I would qualify myself as promiscuous. There's this Jay McInerney book [Story of My Life, narrated by a character based on Hunter, who briefly dated McInerney], and let's correct a part of that right now. In my early twenties, there was a time period when I, in the late '80s, did cocaine. And partied. I was living in New York City.
I think you were the only one who did cocaine in the late '80s. Correct! I was the only one! But the point being, I was never, as it's been reported, a drug addict. The word addiction means inability to stop. I stopped doing drugs in my twenties. As for being promiscuous, I would say that I was a bit promiscuous for about six months. But it was because I was partying, and there were a lot of very good-looking available 20-year-old men around that you'd be partying with, and there was a lot of, you know, hooking up going on.
What was McInerney like to hook up with? [laughs] I love Jay. Jay is a great guy, a lovely man. To date? That time in my life was a nightmare.
You mentioned that it did go through your head, on that first night, that Johnny was married. Did that bother you? Oh yes. Before I met Johnny, I had a lot of judgment about infidelity. Now I have a much deeper and greater understanding and acceptance of people's processes. It's hard and complicated for a lot of people to pull the Band-Aid off, so to speak. So I did have problems with it. Many. But once again, the force field of our love overrode any issues that would arise from my belief systems about, you know, "It should be going different than it is. He should be behaving differently than he is."
Were you ever in a relationship in which you were hurt by infidelity? I come from a family of infidelity.
Your dad? My parents. Both of them. So there's no shock that that would be a dynamic I was involved with.
When did Johnny start to tell you that there were problems in his marriage? Well, I was aware of it from the get-go. He doesn't lie to me.
How can you be sure? He doesn't lie to me. He discloses everything to me. And he has no fear of lying to me. Part of the problem—it's the fear of what's gonna happen that causes the lie. And the hiding. The fear of the repercussions. And, well, first of all, infidelity doesn't happen in healthy marriages. The break in the marriage happens before the infidelity. And that break happened, you know, two and a half decades before I got there. So the home was wrecked already. I was not the Home Wrecker.
So you have enough of a bond with him that, even though you know he's lied to his wife and his state and the country, you really never worry that he will lie to you? No. He does not lie to me. At all.
Because he doesn't have to worry about the repercussions? He's not afraid of me. He'll tell me anything and everything. Even disclosing to me when women hit on him, and everything that was said, and if he flirted. He has no fear that I'm going to abuse him. And I believe what happened in his marriage is, he could not go to his wife and say, "We have an issue." Because he would be pummeled. So he had a huge fear. Most of his mistakes or errors in judgment were because of his fear of the wrath of Elizabeth. He's allowed himself to be pushed into a lot of things that he wouldn't normally do because of Elizabeth's story line. And the spin that she wants to put out there. He was emasculated. And you know, the wrath of Elizabeth is a mighty wrath.
How were you able to reconcile learning these things about her, from him, at the same time knowing that she's ill? Well, his relationship with her and the problems in it really had nothing to do with me. You remove me from the equation and they still exist. They existed before I was there. They're still existing. His dynamic with me is completely different.
How so? We have trust. We trust each other.
Do you feel bad for her at all? Oh, my God, I have such compassion for her. I really do. I mean, especially when you have terminal cancer… I watched my father die of cancer. It's heart-wrenching to me. But it's also sad to me, her unwillingness to take responsibility for her part in the marriage. And her unwillingness to face the truth. We're all slaves to our unconscious, but she really believes that it's everyone else's fault. And that's heart-wrenching to me, too.
Now, from February '06, when you met, to December '06, when he officially announced his run for the presidency, that whole ten months, you two are madly in love? February '06 until… now. [laughs]
But in that time, did you think he should be running for president? Oh, no, I did not think he should run for president.
Because of you? Because of his entire life. Here's the most interesting thing. He had already been vetted for a vice presidential campaign. And he had a lot of problems going on that nobody knew about. So no, I didn't think he should run. And I said that to him. But I also said that if he felt it in his heart that this is his path and what he needed to do, that he should wait till April. Because I thought he was going to have a very hard January, February, and March. And it turned out he did have a very hard January, February, and March.
Why did you think that? Um, just based upon intuition. And my small knowledge of astrology. [laughs]
And he did have a rough few months, to put it mildly. And he did. Elizabeth found out about the affair, and Elizabeth's cancer came back, all before April.
How did she find out about the affair? Do you know? I do know, interestingly enough. And what's out there is not true. What was written in her book [Resilience] was factually incorrect.
So how did she find out? I had purchased a phone for Johnny, a black Razr that looked exactly like his work phone. So he would be able to talk to me while, you know, people would think he was talking on his work phone.
Because it looked the same. Correct. And he had called me December 30 to fuss at me. He was upset with me. And Elizabeth—
What was he upset about? He was upset that I had come to Chapel Hill. On the announcement tour [in her capacity as campaign videographer]. Because he thought it was a bad idea for Elizabeth to see me. Because if she saw me, she would suspect what was happening.
And she did. And she did. And so he was upset with me. And she came into the room or he heard her coming, so he hung up the phone abruptly. And left the phones there, together. And he told me that the next morning, Elizabeth was, you know, thinking, "What was he doing up there? I'll bet he was talking on the phone to her." So she called his cell phone and heard it ringing and went looking for his cell phone. And found the other phone, our phone, next to his cell phone. And picked up the phone and called me. Because the last number dialed…
I see. And I answered the phone and said, "Hey, baby." And, click.
Oh God. And then she confronted him and confronted him, and he finally confessed. He didn't confess like she claims in her book. You know, that he came in on December 30 and confessed that it was a one-night stand. That whole one-night-stand thing is not true.
How would you know? Who has a cell phone for a one-night stand?
Good point. So were you worried that it would come out? That the affair would be exposed? You know, I'm not a great mistress. I'm not a mistress by nature. It's a role that I took on because I fell in love with him. And that was the role that was available to me. [laughs] But there were times, yeah, that were extremely challenging for me. To be sneaking around, or hiding. And I didn't want to get caught, because I didn't want to hurt him. I wanted to support the life he was choosing. And love him. Not to be responsible, funny enough, for the destruction of it. Which could be—I mean, a lot of people view it as such—that it is his biggest self-destruction. Or self-realization. Depending on your perspective.
A great many people say he's ruined his political career, he's ruined his life. You don't see it that way? Well, I don't really believe he was a politician. I believe his ego and ambition drove him to that field. I believe he's more aligned with being a humanitarian. That suits his true nature. Just like I wasn't a mistress. You know, I'm not a mistress, but I played the role? I believe he played the role of a politician. It's not who he is. Being a politician was a path of transformation for him, I believe. It's not really what he was put on the planet to do.
Do you think he misses the power? I don't know the answer to that. Because I don't think it's real power. I think it's false power, you know? It's power based upon circumstances that can change at any minute. And they did. Does he miss the attention? You'd have to ask him, but he gets a lot of attention wherever he goes. It's weird, but he's a bigger celebrity now than he ever was. People pay attention to scandal more than they pay attention to politics.
That day in March '07, when he and Elizabeth stood before the cameras and announced that her cancer had returned and was incurable but they were staying in the race—at that point, the two of you had been together for thirteen months. Where were you, and what were you thinking? I was in New Jersey. [laughs] Andrew Young says that he was planning a tryst for my birthday. In frickin' Iowa. One hundred percent fiction. I was in Jersey, no plans for a birthday tryst at all, and Johnny… I believe he was in Iowa, and he left to go back, for Elizabeth. And my surprise was that they stayed in the race. I was shocked. I really viewed it as reckless. And what's interesting is that she wanted to stay in. That's the key. He wanted to get out, and she wanted to stay in.
He wanted to get out because she was sick? Or because of you? He wanted to get out because of everything. The last three months of his life had been hell. And he just… he was on the fence about announcing, interestingly, in New Orleans. She actually pushed him to announce as well. Of course, she didn't have all the facts. She was in denial about a lot of facts. And I say she was in denial because, you know, their relationship has been dysfunctional and toxic and awful for many, many years. And she was aware of, um, problems and chose to ignore them.
By problems, do you mean other women before you? In part, yes.
In his book, young writes that when Johnny called to tell you that Elizabeth had cancer, you were angry because he wouldn't be spending your birthday with you. Oh yeah, that's 100 percent fiction. No. I was completely supportive. And Johnny really loves Elizabeth. You know, she's the mother of his three, was four, children. And they've been together since I was 13 years old. You know, they've had a life. So there is love there, but, you know, it was a toxic relationship. And very abusive. It's interesting, though, that he allowed himself to be abused. You know, he's no victim. But I think it had to do with having the guilt of the double life—it allowed him to accept the abuse.
That's interesting. As well as having such an outer career built upon that. But the appearance of having that charmed life was built on a lie. The lie of the story line they both created together. To sell. They were both equally responsible for that.
So Elizabeth's cancer comes back in March. When do you think you got pregnant? Quinn was conceived in May, and I knew in July.
And on July 30, John and Elizabeth renewed their wedding vows. What was that like for you? Um… it was challenging. When you're in love with someone who takes actions that go against your belief system, it's extremely challenging to continue loving, instead of becoming righteous and judgmental. But see, I believed, and believe, that what I see in him is there and correct. He's a good man and he will figure it out. And he has and is figuring it out.
When he renewed his wedding vows, did he know you were pregnant? Yes.
Did he tell you ahead of time that they were going to renew their vows? Yeah. He told me, in fact, the first time she mentioned it. That she wanted to do this. And it was… it was challenging.
Weren't you furious? This is their relationship. You know, keep in mind—and I'm not defending his actions at all—but they'd been together for a long time. So the dynamic is old and complicated.
What was your reaction when you found out you were pregnant? I was shocked. I was 43 years old, you know, and pregnant? And I had never been pregnant in my life. Didn't think I could get pregnant.
And how did you tell him? He already knew. Because I felt different. He suspected I was pregnant. And I kept thinking I wasn't. But he felt that I was. And so when I told him on the phone, he wasn't shocked. It was just the official "Yeah, I am."
And what was his reaction? He was always very gracious about it. And always said that he would support whatever decision I made. But I believe on some level he was hoping I would get an abortion. Because he didn't—he wasn't happy about the timing. Which is understandable. [laughs] He was married and running for president. And I find it interesting that my daughter thought that would be a good time to come into the world. That daddy was running for president and married to someone else. "Gee, I think now's the perfect time." There's something to be said for divine timing.
So first you were shocked, but what was the next feeling? Oh, complete happiness. Because I felt with all of my being that I needed to bring this little child into the world. That I was blessed. And it just happened to me. And I love her daddy. She was conceived in love. She is a love child.
So he was gracious, really? There were no fights about it? No, there were no fights. He was very gracious, but I always felt the underlying discontent in his graciousness. I remember one time in Miami—or was it Orlando? [laughs] I traveled a lot to see him. But he said to me, he was like, "There's just nothing I can say to make you change your mind about this." and I said, "Nope." he said, "Guess I'm just gonna have to accept it." very teasing and sweet.
Wow. Yeah. And I just felt like Quinnie needed to come into the world and this wasn't our timing, this was divine timing and he needed to get on board. And figure that one out. And it's interesting, because it's not over yet. That's the other thing. Everyone has such judgments about "He's lost everything." But you know, life isn't over. He's gone through an amazing transformation. And who knows what's gonna happen.
Why and when did the affair end? Or did it ever end? My stint as a mistress ended July 2008. And then our relationship evolved into something different.
And what happened in July 2008? That was when the National Enquirer—the whole Beverly Hilton thing. That changed our relationship. It changed him; it changed everything. And my stint as a mistress ended. And I was and am happy about that. [laughs]
When Elizabeth finds out, your contract as the campaign videographer comes to an end? Correct.
How exactly did that deal come about? Whose idea was it for you to shoot campaign videos? Oh, I pitched him. I definitely pitched him. Because his public persona just did not match who he is. And by the way, it doesn't still. It's gone in the complete opposite direction. It's gone from, you know, "He's so great and so wonderful" to "Now he's the biggest disappointment ever." But I came up with the idea. I'm huge into documentaries, it's my true love, and I thought it would be a great thing for people to see what I see, through my eyes.
How soon after you met did you pitch this idea of working for him? I think I might have pitched him in April [2006]. I met him in February, and I think I pitched him in April.
Now, did you think, on some level, that this would be a way to spend more time with him? Oh yeah! That was definitely part of it. I mean, if you're in love with someone, you want to be with them all the time. So not only would it be a great thing for everyone involved… I mean, I thought [the Webisodes] were pretty good.
But how do you respond to the fact that campaign money, or PAC money, was used so he could spend more time with you? It was actually used to make really great webisodes. He didn't just hire me; he hired my whole team. We were doing real work.
So Elizabeth finds out, but you still continue to see each other? Yeah. Our relationship continued.
How? Just logistically, how did you swing that? I would fly to see him wherever he was.
But there are campaign people around, press around. Just like when… [gestures at the paparazzi outside] You develop a system. And we had a system. [laughs] But that time was not easy for me. Being a mistress was not easy for me. It was a huge learning experience. You know, there have been so many accounts that I "targeted" him and that I went after him because of all the stuff that he was. That's not true. If Johnny was working at a gas station, I would still be in love with him.
Tell me what he's like as a father. Um… he's sweet. He's very loving.
And does she call him daddy? She calls him Da-da.
And she's now just starting to talk, so do you talk about daddy? I saw you have a picture of him in her room. She's always known who Da-da is. Yeah. She's never had Da-da missing from her life.
Do you feel that he'll do the right thing in terms of supporting Quinn? He is doing the right thing. And he's a great father. Once Johnny and Elizabeth separated, we were able to move forward quite quickly. And it has to do with him not hiding in order to see his daughter. He very much wants to be in her life full—time, and he doesn't want to hide.
So what was he like when you went through your pregnancy, while he was campaigning for president? Oh, he was—he is so loving. I remember the day I found out it was a girl. He was thrilled about that. He thought that was very cool.
And when you gave birth—I know it was an emergency C-section—what was he like? Johnny called me in recovery, and we spoke all night on the phone from the hospital. He went through the whole process with me.
And how did you name her? Well, her name is Frances Quinn Hunter, and I love the name Frances. Johnny wasn't over the moon about Frances. So I was coming up with names, and Quinn is a name that I loved, and that was the only name that he thought was cool. And so I named her Quinn because Daddy really liked it.
Let's talk about some of the things that have been said about you. The word hussy has been used. And kooky gets used a lot.
Kooky. I think that I can give someone kooky, you know? I'm not conventional, I don't fit into a box. But I am grounded. Don't mistake… I am very grounded. People also say I'm crazy. And there's no crazy about me. At all. It's so fascinating to me, the projection. Like, the people that have written about me? They see me in a certain way based on their own stuff. Perception is projection. Like, for instance, Josh Brumberger, who said in Game Change [the best-selling book by John Heilemann and Mark Halperin] that I was at the Regency dressed more appropriately for a Grateful Dead concert. Because from Josh's perspective, I seemed weird and wacky. In reality, I was wearing a black TSE cashmere sweater, a Kenneth Cole suede jacket, and jeans. But in his mind, I'm dressed to go to a Grateful Dead concert. Total projection!
Do you think it's the not-fitting-into-a-box that Johnny fell in love with? There are some parts of that. Johnny doesn't fit into a box in a lot of ways, either. There's a big part of him that's unconventional. And then there's a large part of him that is the North Carolina, southern, traditional, conventional guy who's older.
One thing that jumped out to me from Game Change was that you "flirted outlandishly with every man." Did you? Oh, my god, that is so hilarious to me, because I was so in love with Johnny. Why would I be flirting with anybody else? Men misread this all the time. If you're open and look someone in the eye, they think you're flirting with them! Because, Oh, my God, somebody's listening to me. So a lot of men think that I'm coming on to them if I'm actually just listening to them.
What does that say about men? They're starving for love and attention is what it says.
There've been reports that he bought you a house. Apparently he's bought me many houses! Based upon what the National Enquirer has to say, I have a house in Wilmington, a house in Charlotte, and now I'm gonna have a house in Bald Head [all in North Carolina]. And yet I'm living in a rental.
Did he buy you any houses? I am not living in any houses that are owned by John Edwards. And he's not my landlord.
Did he buy you any houses that you aren't living in yet? It's my understanding that he and Elizabeth, before they separated, bought a house in Charlotte that they apparently thought would be a good place for Quinn to live. They wanted to rent it to us, and I couldn't afford it. We do not live in the house, nor do we have any plans to move into it.
How do you support yourself now? Johnny's been helping a little bit. But you know, I need to work. [laughs] Because we reached an agreement, and child support is child support. So Johnny had been helping. But now I know what Quinn is getting, and I need to work.
Andrew Young claims you had a conversation on the porch in the rain at Johnny's house about getting married with a rooftop wedding and the Dave Matthews Band. Is that true? No. We were on the porch, and it was raining. Those are the only facts that are correct about that night in Andrew's book. It astonishes me. The story is good enough without all the lies.
Did you and Johnny ever talk about wedding plans? No. To date [laughs], we have not spoken about any wedding plans.
Young also claims you slept together in Johnny and Elizabeth's bed. Andrew drove me back to my hotel, the Marriott in Meadowmont [in Chapel Hill]. I'll say this about Andrew's book: If his grand-jury testimony matches his book, I would suspect that they will be looking at him for many, many counts of perjury.
You spent nine hours before the grand jury. What did they seem most interested in? They spent a lot of time asking me detailed questions about Andrew Young, and about my relationship with Johnny. They asked a lot of questions about the sex tape.
Do you think Johnny will be indicted? For what, not firing Andrew Young ten years ago? No, absolutely not. I do not think Johnny will be indicted.
What do you think the Youngs' motivations are? I think Andrew and [his wife] Cheri's motivations are mixed. They are scorned. Andrew was in love with Johnny. And, um—
In love with him? In love with him. Beyond. And I believe he loved Johnny more than he loved Cheri. So Johnny was the third person in their relationship. And I'm sure she hates Johnny, because Andrew took a lot of obvious actions that were for Johnny and not for Cheri. But Cheri went along with them. And they both have a way of spinning things. But a lot of their motivation is money.
How did the whole plan go down for Andrew to claim paternity? It was Andrew's idea. The first time Andrew said it, I was on the phone with Johnny, and Johnny was screaming at me about the National Enquirer finding me and photographing me. He was very angry. And Johnny doesn't scream. He's not a screamer. But he was screaming at me that day, and Andrew suggested, right then and there, "Hey, tell him that I'll claim I'm the father."
You heard him say that? Yes. I was on the phone with Johnny. Andrew was sitting next to me. Not on the phone. But offering the idea as I was talking. He said, "Tell him I can always claim that I'm the father." And it was so crazy I just discounted it and didn't even repeat it to Johnny. I looked at Andrew like, "Are you out of your mind?" and then the next I remember or hear was that Andrew had offered that to Johnny and Johnny had thought that that may be a way to go. I think Johnny's initial reaction was that it was a bit crazy, but, you know, maybe. And I just thought it was insane. And I thought for sure Cheri would never go along with it and Cheri would be the out. And Cheri went along with it.
It was a really—I don't mean to understate it at all, it was a really hard time in my life. I was on the couch pregnant, and I just felt like I… it was devastating for me, because it went against all of my belief systems. And to go along with this insane plan… but I eventually made the choice to do it, and I did it because I thought that it was the best thing for Quinn. I was a little unsure of what would happen with her relationship with her father, and I didn't want to be… I didn't want to do anything that would jeopardize her relationship with her dad. And that's why I went along with it.
How would this lessen the chance of jeopardizing their relationship? I felt that if he dropped out [of the race] and blamed her, for coming into the world, that that would be something I didn't know if she could get over. Or they could get over. So that's why I went along with it. I didn't want her held—or her to feel—responsible. Because you know how kids are. They take on the responsibility even though it's not theirs, and become over responsible.
Like "My daddy could have been president"— Right. "And I came along."
Let's talk about the sex tape. I know you're in litigation right now and it's the one thing your lawyers have advised you not to talk about. But what were you thinking? I'd love to answer that. But I filed papers and we're in a lawsuit, and I just can't talk about it. [Having sought and won a temporary restraining order to prevent the distribution of the tape, Hunter is suing the Youngs for invasion of privacy.] But I do look forward to talking about it in court, under oath. The truth of all that will come out in court.
What do you think will happen to Andrew Young? I think like I do with everything: the truth eventually reveals itself. And we're all here to grow and evolve. And I think Andrew will grow and evolve, even if it's behind bars.
Let's talk about the money. There are reports now of a huge amount—over a million dollars—coming from two donors, Bunny Mellon and the late Fred Baron, to support you and the Youngs [while they kept up the ruse that Young was the father]. What exactly were you aware of? I was not aware of how much money Andrew was receiving. When I became aware, in May '08, of how much Fred was sending him, I wanted to have nothing to do with Andrew anymore. Because I felt that I was being used [by the Youngs] for them to pocket money. And I wanted no part of it. And I believe when Johnny became aware of that is when he wanted no part of Andrew as well.
But back up. How did this work exactly? For about six months, starting in May '07, Andrew would put $5,000 a month into my bank account. One month it was $6,000. And he told me it was on the up-and-up and it was a gift. I had no idea where it was coming from.
But in May '07, you didn't even know you were pregnant yet. What did you think the money was for? Andrew gave me money because he felt I shouldn't be using my own money to travel to see Johnny. Andrew always wanted to "take care of everything." And at that point, I trusted him. He was seductive in how he took care of things and insisted that you have things. And a lot of times, Johnny had no idea what he was up to, nor did he ask him to do it.
The dynamic was: Andrew always taking care of things without telling Johnny or anyone else what he was doing, and claiming he was doing it "On the senator's behalf." But at the same time, he was so helpful and kind. And took care of everything. Every little detail he was always offering: "Let me do this. Get a massage, you need a massage, you deserve it," or "Pick out whatever car you want. I'll take care of it, you deserve it, please."
That would be the BMW. Yes. A used BMW. Now he says I'm the big diva. When it was all upon his insistence, almost to the point of fights over and over again.
In December '07, Andrew claims to be the father, and all of you move to Santa Barbara. What did you know about the funding at that point? I knew Fred was helping with the hotels and the living arrangements. I had no clue about the money coming from Bunny.
When did you learn about the Bunny money? When I watched Lisa Myers on NBC [in late January] and heard that it was $700,000. My jaw dropped. I never had any idea the kind of money that Andrew received from Bunny Mellon. He told me he received two checks from her, small checks totaling about $50,000, and that he never deposited them.
Then you hear on TV that it's $700,000? I was shocked.
So after your split from the Youngs [three months after Quinn was born], how did the money system work? Fred paid my rent and gave me money for Quinn and I to live on.
And this wasn't hush money? It was never hush money. Ever. Fred gave me the money as a gift with no strings attached. And Johnny always said to me I could talk to the media whenever I wanted, and whatever I did would never affect his relationship with Quinn. Me not talking to the press was my own personal choice based on what I felt was best for me and my daughter and based upon my feelings for how the media operates.
If it wasn't hush money, what was it? Fred was a very kind and generous man. He even paid for a security guard when he was concerned about our safety. And in May '08, Fred and Lisa [Blue, his wife] came to visit me in Santa Barbara and to meet Quinn, and Fred just flat out asked me, "How can I help you, and what do you need?" because Fred knew I needed to get away from the Youngs. I'd just given birth to a baby, the tabloids were stalking me, and he wanted to help.
And now the National Enquirer is up for a Pulitzer [for its Edwards coverage]. How do you feel about that? To me it shows, as a society, how cut off from the truth we are, that a magazine that pays their sources and every once in a while gets something factually correct is now eligible for a Pulitzer. Wow, we're all going to hell.
You mentioned earlier women hitting on Johnny. Does that bother you? Does it make you jealous? Not really. It actually doesn't. It's completely understandable. First of all, he's very attractive. Second of all, he's a celebrity. I totally get it. What does bother me is that he has to be vigilant all the time, because there are some people who want to hurt him, especially if they don't get what they want. So if he goes to a bar… I mean, he should be hanging out in churches and libraries. [laughs] I stole that line, but it's a good one. Because his life is different now. If he even talks to a woman, there's a possibility she can call the tabloids and change the story and make a buck.
Do you think he ever hits on them? No, I do not think he hits on them. But what does happen is, Johnny has the same thing I have, where he looks people in the eye and listens to them. And a lot of times women will misinterpret that, or they'll project their desires onto him. And that gets a little tricky. I sometimes have a reaction to that.
Does it make you empathize at all with how Elizabeth may have felt? Oh, it's completely understandable.
If you could change anything about Johnny, what would it be? Um… [laughs] That's a great question. I would change nothing about him. I would change, within myself, my, um, inability to be more accepting in certain areas. I get frustrated. And when I get frustrated—all under the story line that he's not doing what I want him to do or he's not acting the way I want him to act—I lose patience. So I would wish for more patience. Having a child helps with that. But it's not him, it's me. Because he's doing the best he can. With the awareness level he has. He's a man. [laughs]
If you could have done anything differently, what would it be? The only big thing that sticks out is, I never would have gone along with Andrew young claiming paternity. I would have stood up to that and said, "Absolutely not. I don't care what the consequences are, I'm done."
Did anyone who knew you think it was even remotely possible that he was the father? Oh no. God, no.
You couldn't go from John Edwards to Andrew Young— [laughs hard] That's hilarious.
Okay, so now here you are. Johnny's separated. He obviously has a decent relationship with you and his daughter. Why not just be with him at this point? Oh, you're wanting the fairy-tale ending! [laughs]
Don't you want the fairy-tale ending? I want whatever life brings me.
Okay, so I know this might be a chick question, but did you know that very first night that you were something special to him? I did know, yes. I did know the first night. We had an extraordinary night, and I did know that this was unlike anything either of us had ever experienced. And as we have all learned, that was accurate! [laughs] He in fact did say to me the first night, "Falling in love with you could really fuck up my plans for becoming President." And of course I said, "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans."
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